Dean:
Well hello everybody out there in podcast land this is Dean Steinman from Ortho Marketing and we are back with another podcast for you! I am very very stoked for today's guests. Those of you that are in the orthodotic dental space have heard the the company Candid and I'm very excited to have 2 of the big people from Candid here today. I am proud to have the CEO and the director of marketing here and I'd love to introduce them. They'll talk a little bit about the company and what they're doing so without further ado I have Nick Greenfield and I have Jen Pinder. Start off with Nick thank you so much so much for joining us I really appreciate it so welcome. Thanks so much and tell us who is Nick Greenfield.
Nick:
Yeah, thanks so much for having me really excited to be here and specifically to talk about marketing within the orthodontic space both for orthodontists and general dentists. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Candid and one of the things that we are known for is starting as a direct-to-consumer business and actually fully pivoting out of direct-to-consumer about two years ago and focusing entirely now on the dental professional. So we took a business that was doing almost 100,000,000 in revenue burned it down to zero and started again to focus on helping dentists and orthodontists scale up orthodontics inside their practices. What this means is you get to work with folks like Jen who who will give you a rundown of what she does um to think about orthoontics as a service right? How do we simplify and scale up an orthodonic business. That allows you to do way more with way less cost and way more time for yourself and your patients. So everything we're doing is geared around that and helping drive incredibly high quality clinical outcomes but really thinking about the business side which is chair time. And cost reduction and increasing volume of patients coming into your practice.
Dean:
So I've had lots of ceos in here and I'm always love finding out your aha moment. So let's go back in time tell me what happened you woke up one morning and said I want to start an aligner company. But was your aha moment. You said this is something that I want to do and I see the opportunity and what made you get out of bed and say boom. Let's do this so. What was your awakening moment.
Nick:
So if you if you rewind back even before the aha moment for me I didn't have orthodontics growing up and by the time I graduated college. It was clear that my teeth had shifted and I went to my. Dentist at the time in San Francisco and she told me the cost of at that time inviseline and I almost fell out of my chair I mean you're talking about you know for a 23 year old kid making $50000 a year which I felt was you know at the time highway robbery I mean I was I was doing great. And the idea of taking you know, especially in in a place like california you know taking twenty thirty percent of my you know entire income for the year and and spending money on orthodonxs to me that was that was crazy right? That's a huge number and I think what? what's happened since and I'll get I'll get to the moment that really brought it together because. It was the story that I saw the increase in accessibility and the improvement in technology right in 2012 I sell it a blackberry right? So the iphone has now enabled candid monitoring.
Nick:
Which is our you know the base of our remote monitoring solution very similar to many of the features that I'm sure some of the doctors listening to this podcast have used such as dental monitoring or or other services but integrates a bunch more features like live chat support for patients.
Jennifer:
How it.
Nick:
And other things that kind of up up level the game and so when we thought about those things coming together. The fact that you could take the physical of a liner and then the digital for a busy, professional or busy working mom or a kid in school and dramatically reduce office visits. And make it way more accessible for patients which would bring not only the the cost down the perceived cost of having to come in and out of the office all the time but also improve the cost for the doctor because instead of needing to do 15 or 20 visits now because the patient can be monitored remotely at home for many of those visits. You're going from 1520 visits in a case to 3 or 4 visits in a case and so you're saving chair time and cost and so bringing those 2 things together really was the origin is the digital and the physical world coming together to to make the original candid product.
Dean:
So um, what gave you the I guess this is apparently used from my grandma the huzpah to say I'm going to get into this and tackle the bohemoth thats there so you know that's like you know, saying up. Well I'm going to start a new Kleenex company. And stock baking tissues. Everybody knows is kleenex so there is a big big big player in the aligner space. So what made you say I want to I want to compete with these guys you know and because that's ah, that's a tough road to hoe there. So what? what was your your driving force behind that.
Nick:
So I've done it before and I think that that's an important an important part of the story is I was one of the very very early employees before there was a name or even a concept at Lyft and so we took one uber.
Dean:
Wow. Okay.
Nick:
And you know we ultimately I think at peak got to about 40% market share I think that has gone down to about 30% market share in the states. Um, but but know how to build a company where you can find the opportunity and and the opportunity that we saw was not necessarily cannibalistic. It wasn't hey we're going to go and take all these invisible line cases. It was we think there's a huge part of the market today that's underserved from a patient population standpoint and we want to provide the dental professional tools through. Differentiated a liner manufacturing differentiated movement methodologies and differentiated monitoring. Those are the three M's that really drive the candid pro system to allow doctors to now take on more cases drive more accessibility and affordability for patients. And that will increase the overall size of the market and when we move made the move to candid pro which really was more of okay now we're going you know in in quotes head-to-head as you know some people would think we still really think about this as market accreative or growth opportunity inside of practice. Some of our largest doctors.
Dean:
Great.
Nick:
Are offering candid Pros side by side but then businesselign and others have moved all of their volume to candid pro because of the problems that we solve for them So we're we're not here to to shrink the market or it's not a 0 sum Game. We view this as very market expansionary for not only the doctors but of course. The patients that they serve every day.
Dean:
So Jen you deal with with with marketing and and positioning and things like like that. Um, what would you say are the 2 biggest pain points that a practice has in order to at the facing now and how do you think that. That candidate solves that.
Jennifer:
Yeah, it's and I love how Humble Nick is about everything So I'm going to like to his horn a little bit as I talk because he's so humble. All he wants to do is help everybody right and he truly is the smartest guy I've ever met, but he'll never sit there and tell you all of that stuff and when he's saying we are going against. We're growing the market. That's exactly what we're doing and the 2 things that you're asking me is profitability right? That's one of the biggest problems all of our practices are facing right now things are at an all time high with expenses right? And now we're telling practices that how are they going to increase their profitability. Well here's where we come in right? They are able to have patients. Remote monitor that they're able to be in treatment as well as they're able to do additional production. There's no other product out there that lets you do that? You're able to do a 2 for 1 at the same time in a chair and that's what practices need with everything that's happening with inflation right now I mean and Dean you and I talked about this the last time we spoke I go to the grocery store and look how much more my grocery bill is.
Dean:
Second.
Jennifer:
It's huge, right? This is what practices are up against and now practices are up against their hygienists are leaving because it's their world right now they are leaving and getting big time dollars going to different practices so we have to face the reality that we're in how are we going to let practices grow. And how are we going to make it where they can make a profit too. They want to keep their team members. They need to keep leveling up in their game and how are they going to help their their patients. They're going to help their patients at their patients can remote monitor because I'm a busy mom I work full time I have two kids I do not have time to go the doctor for myself ever I just don't and it's. Not my boss telling me I can't go. It's I have too many things on my plate. But if you told me I could remote monitor. Heck yeah, I'm going to do that because now I'm like okay I can do this for me and my kids it's making it a lot easier because oh and to mention my kids have cheer. My kids have basketball. My kids have this, we're in this world that we have to make it fit for the patient but also. For the practice and with the practice when you have dental professionals. They need more support so here's where candid pro comes in and we say okay, we're going to build a business plan with you. We're going to show you step by step marketing pieces of what you need to do of how to market to your patients and we're going to so put it together in a pretty bow. And then we're going to sit there and talk to you each month and say okay how many cases did you start this month and what's our goal and how do we get to if you want to do five cases a month great how are we going to get you to 10 and let's give you a roadmap of how we you're going to do that and how you do that is you have to be business partners and that's what candid pro is with all of their practices. We're business partners.
Jennifer:
We come in and take you by the hand and we're like we will train you we will give you marketing support. We'll give you business support and we'll show you how to level up your practice because the practices right now don't know how everything has changed so much and even digitally like websites look at most dental practices websites I mean you do them. How many times. Do you go to a dental practice and it's current. It has current pictures. It even has the services that they have it doesn't so that's where we come in and we're like let's work with you and show you how to do this and give you the materials you saw everything that we give we give you a whole asset kit. We're like okay here you want web copy here. You want social posts here. You want email blasts here and all they have to do is put in their name so we try to make it as plug and play as possible for them because we know what it's like to be in their world. I used to be in that world all the time I know how crazy it is and then I know to teach a team of how to adopt a whole new concept is hard so when you have a whole company behind it. Saying you know what we're going to show you every step of the way and we're going to make you as comfortable as possible. that's invaluable and that's I'm so thankful for Nick for letting us do this the way he does because it's such a different mindset from other companies because you know I've been at other companies and I've never seen it this way. We want to help people. We want help practices and we want help patients and that's what we do every day and that's the coolest part of my job.
Nick:
And I would add on top of that to 2 important things 1 is candid. Pro is not a lab right? We look at everybody else out there. They're labs you put in the prescription. You say what you want they send you something you're on your own with candid pro. You have folks like Jen. Who are there full time to help you grow your practice and Jen has helped practices not in a year not in a quarter not in a month not in a week sometimes in a day and many practices I've seen this do $100000 in net new production in a single day.
Dean:
Wow.
Nick:
By bringing her capabilities and her talents and those of her team into the practice to help them be successful. So I think that that's what we do is we think about ourselves as partners we need practices who are partners that want to work with us collaboratively. But then we help take them to the next level because we have.
Jennifer:
We are.
Nick:
People like Jen who just know how to do that.
Dean:
So I'm gonna throw word out there with actually 2 words and that are at the scariest 2 words in most people's business lives and that's adapt and change. Okay, and it's so hard for somebody to do that especially in a dental professional there.
This is what they're trained to do and you know so and obviously now you want them to adapt and you want them to change the way they do things and how they think so you know let's back up 1 bit agenda you spoke, but but while back and we had this great conversation I remember that you know.
I work a lot of our practices and they're they're afraid to adapt to to monitoring to virtual monitoring. They say we won't see the patients as often and you and I said no, you will see them so much more. But you're seeing them in 2023 not 2019 or 18 and 2023 is virtual. That's the world we're in.
Jennifer:
Yeah, yeah.
Dean:
But they don't see it and adapt you know so what is it that you know what if I can you give a a practice somebody listening to say you have to adapt you have to change from the status quo because change is scary so you know, um. First of all Nick what what's 1 bit of advice said you would give a practice that just you know they're stuck. They've been using you know visual line for but bla blah and they don't want to change because of this and that and and they're very happy and you know people get used to it or they don't even do a vi line they they don't want. They just want to use traditional braces. So now. It's you've got all these these they have all these options out there candid and and several obviously other aligner companies. What 1 bit advice would you give a practice to change.
Nick:
If you are in the business of dentistry or in orthodontics you are responsible for serving your patients in your community and you have to know what your patients in your community want and so change is not about changing yourself or changing the way you do things because. You want to just make yourself better. It's actually about the changing times of what the expectations of the patients are and and those folks who are coming in to see you and those expectations have changed dramatically from 2010 to 2020 to now 23 into 24 you can get things on Amazon not in two days but in 1 hour right? We've we've all experienced the Amazon prime world people expect to be able to see their doctors if it's possible virtually they expect information immediately. They expect that everything is digital and so.
Dean:
Exactly right.
Nick:
It's not about actually making a huge change to the way you practice. It's about understanding what your patients are looking for and if you can deliver what patients are looking for and what we see time and time again is a solution which requires 75% fewer office visits can finish. Up to 40% Faster reduces attachments and reduces Ipr which is an area of pain for patients and causes more failure and introduces this virtual monitoring solution where patients can actually scan at home drives a higher level of compliance. Those are the things that patients expect in 2023 and so my ask wouldn't be hey you need to make a bunch of changes for change Sake I think you have to look at what your patients want and how your patients live their lives and every other product and service they interact with every single day. And your practice needs to start to look like that and even get ahead of it so that you can become a leader rather than falling behind.
Jennifer:
Yeah, and the great thing. The great thing we do is we meet practices where they are because if I were to go in to a practice until the hygiennic that they have to scan every single patient I'd be thrown out on my tail right? because that would be overwhelming but what we do is we so make everything a stair step.
Dean:
Jen What about you?
Jennifer:
And show them how to do it. We give them a roadmap so when you meet practices where they are with every step There's not 1 practice that is exactly the same and at candid pro we realize that so we don't have this cookie cutter approach. We have a customized approach for every practice we partner with. And we say okay here show me your workflow and then what we do is not even just for us. We help level up your workflow just within your practice because we are changing and the thing is is is change scary. Yes, but is it inevitable. Yes, just like Nick was talking about. He had a blackberry. We all had a blackberry and I mean I am going to date myself even more I had a next toe. I mean good lord you know what? I mean like look at the progression of how that all went so if things keep changing and now could we ever imagine ourselves without an iphone. No. But what is it going to look like in 2 years from now who knows if it's still going to be an iphone I'm sure it's going to be something else. We'll probably have a chip in our head but it's we're going to keep growing with that so we have to grow with our practice. And that's what candid pro does is we come in and say okay if you have one scanner we're going to set it up and show you how to scan a patient in the morning a patient in the afternoon and I can show you how to increase your production x fold and when you do this and you inspect what you expect because that's what we do with our practices we set goals with them and then we go in and show them continually our reps are there with. Their practices all the time and that's what the practices need but then what happens is when we get them to where they're comfortable now they're doing 10 15 twenty thirty cases a month completely on their own and they never even dreamed of this. We're changing their practices and when we talk to the practices. The practices tell us I'm like tell me what your goals are.
Jennifer:
We have some that want to expand we have some that want to get another it tarro we have some that want to tell me what it is that you want and we can get you there and it's the most I can't even tell you how much it fills all of our cups of how happy it makes us when youre we're able to see how happy a provider is. 1 of the cases that Nick was talking about. We did a love your smile day which is in the liner day and we did it with a practice who had been in business for over ten years they had their highest production ever in one day in over 10 years. He called with he was crying. You know what I mean and then I start crying. You know I'm like oh my gosh I'm so happy.
Dean:
12
Jennifer:
For you and he's building on an extra observatory. He wants to. He's really expanding. He's doing great things but it's that's changing when you can do stuff like that and that is the coolest feeling in the world when we can show a practice how to grow and they know they're not by themselves. They have us.
Dean:
What needs to be done to take the training wheels off a practice who want who says they finally are going to jump into the aligner space and do that Obviously as trepidation as far as. What they kind of do in their skill set. So What's the learning curve for a practice who hasn't done this before and then what needs to be done in order for them to be all in.
Jennifer:
Yeah.
Nick:
The first area is clinical confidence as a doctor that is the lowest common denominator you have to believe that the product can deliver what you need it to deliver right? And so in terms of engaging with us. Those are a lot of the questions that we get out of the gate and and our team and then our faculty is able to answer those questions. What can you and and can you not do and with every system whether it's fixed or it is you know it is an aligner There's always some limitations around things that are more challenging and. Many times other solutions are driven around the talent and experience exclusively of the provider because they don't share data back from other cases with each and their different provider. So the first thing to do is make sure that we can get you to feel clinically confident that the solution works. And candid pro today has the bells and whistles you need to do almost all of the cases that you would do with aligners. We have elastics and attachments and bite ramps and ipr and we try to minimize the use there. But that's the first the second is a lot of the work that jen and her team do workflow optimization. Getting the staff bought in right? as a doctor you can't do things without your staff. Your staff needs to believe in it and then there's a whole laundry list and we bring that to the practice like a consultant would but this is coming from candid pro as a partner on things that we can do to help you scale.
Piece by piece. It's not going to all happen overnight. We can help you get from 0 to 60 as fast as you want to go but some doctors want to actually take it more slowly and see how things progress and so whether it's marketing whether it's having the right financing the right workflow and process as as jen said especially for dentists. Um, scanning more patients or even buying a scanner some capital equipment all of those different things are part of that checklist and we can help you go through it and go from doing you know one case a month to ten cases a month we have countless providers that we've helped that happen. Um, and and we're here to help you know. Help grow providers and help them be more successful and help them serve their patients better.
Dean:
Wow! So Jen so the main holding point that I 5 with a lot of practices is the staff all right. You could get the doctor to buy in and that but then gave the staff a whole different story. So what advice would you give at practice whose doctors said yes I want to do this but staff's old school been there.
2030 years don't want to adapt don't know how to do so so what little tip would you give to a doctor today to help his staff buy into this because once again change is tough and people that have done doing this for 20 years I'm not how to do that I don't know about I'm afraid to do this so what.
Jennifer:
Yes, yeah.
Dean:
What can a doctor do in order to get his staff to buy into to this type of change?
Jennifer:
Yeah, well, it's a couple things and I actually just was on the phone with a rep and a practice today and we had this exact conversation and what we're doing because they're new with us and what we're doing is they're setting up an incentive within the practice. That they're doing for when they hit the first twenty cases that they're doing a team outing and they're all going to get a bonus when you want to change behavior. You do have to do certain things like this right? Do you want to put in different benchmarks. Do you want to do a team lunch. Do you want to? How do you want to celebrate when the first case is signed. You have to do little things to kind of do this but with consistency comes confidence. Right? So when we get them where they're scanning and we do scanning competitions or where we have different financial competitions where they can have financial presentations and they role play with me and we kind of do competitions and I send donuts to people. It's you have to reward that behavior right? But I always talk to every practice I said remember the day you first opened that practice you were scared to death. You came in, you turned the lights on your knees were shaking and you didn't know how you were going to talk to that patient but you did were you great. No you fumbled a little bit but it's okay because you learned and you had someone there with you step walking through it right? You had your team with you and you were confident with them that you knew you wanted to help these patients and you knew you had their best interests at heart. You have an army at candid pro and you have an orthodontist in your back pocket. You have an orthodontist who's going to give you your treatment plan and then if you have any questions you have 1 on 1 calls with our orthodontists and they walk you through the process. There's no other company out there. That's going to do all of this for you. So when you have that kind of security with us.
Jennifer:
That's empowering to the practice and when we can help them say. Okay, we're going to set reasonable goals and if your team is resistant. Okay, let's set something reasonable of how we're going to get there but you have to work with us to get them there if you want 5 cases you have to make sure that they're going to scan at least a patient a day. Yeah, that's realistic right? We're not telling you to scan all 15 that you're seeing. But if you scan one that's realistic and if you scan one a day on a four day week you're going to close at least 2 bare minimum. You know what? I mean so it's we make it where it's stare step and then before you know it that repetition. Of coming in and turning on the lights in the computer every day this is what's happening right? Now. It's not as scary and then now they're getting empowered when they see one of our rips that they're like oh my gosh I already started to I started 3 I started 4 okay, so now we're changing it right? people want to please. But you have to give them that confidence so we start with the doctor. And then we go to the teams and when we make both people confident. They're going to be fine and we're going to keep working with them and we're going to keep growing with their practice and then we're going to keep showing them what different patients look like of here's a busy mom have you ever talked to this patient have you ever talked to someone who's been in braces before. Like you have to start planning the seed of what different patients look like because everyone presents differently right? We know because we're in it that 75 venty five to 85% of patients suffer from mal olusion. Well patients don't even know what maloclusion is right? It sounds like a scary word and it's not a scary word but you have to we want you to be in that storytelling position.
Jennifer:
Because that's the other thing you'll hear from assistants is assistants. Don't want to sell I don't want you to sell either I Want you to story Tellll to the patients of how this is going to help the patient and why they need it, Why they need It is their teeth are going to keep shifting if we don't fix this now Now they're on the road so they're going to need major restorative work. It's going to be costly. It's going to be time Consuming. It's going to hurt all the things right? but you have to storytell that to the patient because the patient trusts the assistance and the hygienists. So when we change that that's a huge thing for our teams when we're talking to them they soon as they get the concept of I don't have to sell it I just need to tell the patient the benefits that's a empowering thing for them. And it makes them so much more comfortable that they want to talk to their patients about it. You compliment. Yeah.
Dean:
Gonna get used to change. You know it's scary as I mentioned before but but once you do it. It's it's second nature. Um, um, Nick I'm gonna give you 2 pair of glasses first pair is it's gonna give you ability to go back 3 years in time all right? So now you're sitting there and you wake up on morning and. Have a chance to talk to nick 2019 all right? Twenty Twenty what he what what? are he saying to you? what what what? bit of advice are you are you giving yourself.
Jennifer:
Yeah, he's wondering.
Nick:
So a little bit of context for us going back 3 years so I guess that's that's 2020 yeah so so you want to go 4 years back pre pre covered I mean we had about.
Dean:
2020 right before covid let's say 4 years okay let's go 4 Okay free ko.
Nick:
40 retail locations. We were spending many millions of dollars a month on consumer marketing. It's one of the things that we know how to do really? Well as a company is help you help you with your marketing spend. We've spent over $100000000 as a company on consumer marketing and we had almost 700 employees so if you want to just think about what this company looked like at that point and I would have strongly encouraged myself and the team to make the pivot that we made much sooner because. What I've seen is the clinical capabilities that we now have and the results that we're able to drive through the professional channel are just differentiated especially from more complex cases where you you see that in a level of oversight that um. Patients feel like they they they want and they need and that our doctors feel like they want and they need so I would encourage us to rather than waiting until the end of 2021 to make that move I would encourage us four years ago to make that move immediately.
Dean:
All right? So interesting now you can put another pair on and now we're going 3 years into the future. What are you seeing in the in this space.
Nick:
Great. Um I think um that the company will be 1 of the if not kind of the leading orthodontic solution with integrated remote monitoring I believe that we will continue to innovate. On clinical capabilities that allow orthodontists and general dentists to start more cases with less and less chair time to operate practices with even higher levels of efficiency than they're able to do today I believe that we will have. Probably many thousands if not tens of thousands of doctors on the platform and it will not just be domestic today which is we're focused on the Us but we will likely you know have started the process of becoming a global company and we will be out there. Not only helping patients get the smiles they want in the states. But across the world. So 3 years from now I think we will have meaningfully expanded in in many many different areas and the market will know that the clinical results driven by doctors using the candid pro solution will be best in class.
Dean:
Where do you see the orthodontic industry in 3 years or now.
Nick:
I think the orthodontic industry is going to continue to expand I think you will see more doctors going digital I know it feels like everyone's gone digital but it turns out that there's a lot of practices that are doing almost exclusively fix. Today and I think as Dr Seymour clinical evidence and the clinical quality and the capabilities continue to expand on the digital front. You will see a continued shift to aligners I think you will see doctors embrace other technologies besides intraoral scanning and the 3 d printing of clear liners. Such as what candid pro offers with integrated monitoring I think you'll also see more general dentists continuing to do more orthodontics in their practice. Many of those cases wouldn't convert over many of those cases would be you know adult cases that probably wouldn't go to a specialist.
Nick:
And I think you'll see more integration of of Telehealth services and opportunities to reduce that share time.
Dean:
Um, two final questions. Um Nick so I'm I'm a big person of fantasies. You could tell going back in time and forward in time so now. But if we take it another level here. So I'm giving you the ability to go out and have a beer with anybody In the history of the world who you who are you hanging out with.
Nick:
Okay I would say off the top of my head Benjamin Franklin would be a pretty awesome person. Um I'm a huge history buff and I love that kind of that era and the name for candid. In fact, comes from when I was a very young child candid camera came to my house and and tried to convince my babysitter that it was Benjamin Franklin's original house.
Dean:
Sure Really atlan fun.
Nick:
And so I think that that would bring it all together to the dinner. Yes, oh they didn't get her. No no, she yeah, she knew the house was built in the 1920 s yeah yeah.
Dean:
And did they get her no did they get her no did they get her to believe or oh that's that's great Gri and Mark you Jen who would you? you have the ability.
Jennifer:
Um, as if. That's so cool I Never do that.
Dean:
Anybody in the history of the world who you who you have and a drink with really.
Jennifer:
So we were actually just talking about this this past weekend. Um I want to know? Yeah, we. It's funny. You said that I want to meet Oprah I always have I think she's the most fascinating person ever I think she's talked she has done so much I would love love love to sit down I think you have to put it out in the universe to make it happen. But I would love to sit down and talk to her I just think she's a wealth of knowledge and just the kindest human on the planet and I would love to sit and have dinner or drink anything.
Dean:
Okay, interesting and 1 final question the most important one. Um and asteroids hitting earth in 3 hours yep Nick what's your last meal.
Nick:
I would say a good Philadelphia soft pretzel with a lot of mustard just pretel yeah, just a parzel with some good. Yeah.
Dean:
Whoo What? that's it just a pretzel That's all you're doing. Let's a final beal Hu really good hot muster interesting. All right Good Jen last meal sushi. Okay, good all right.
Jennifer:
Sushi Sushi Yeah, all day.
Dean:
Ah, awesome. Well thanks so much guys for joining I Really appreciate it. So if practice is interested in learning more about can they wants to do a demo. Whatever what's the best way for them to to get information and to and to set this up.
Nick:
Visit candidpro.com you can fill out an information submission form there we will reach out to you hopefully almost instantly and if you can mention how you found out about us we we would love to know.
Dean:
Great! Thanks so much. So Jen Nick thank you so much for joining us really appreciate us was this very entertaining educational. Ah, love it. And yeah I think what you guys are doing is great. So you know my hat's off to you I can't wait to see what's coming down the road and you know I'm very impressed by the work you're doing so thank you so much. From from me as working in the industry. Love the change and and what you're doing here and only wish you all the best moving forward. So thank you so much for joining us everybody out in podcast land. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks so much. We'd love to hear your comments if you have any questions obviously reach out. We'd love to hear what you think of this and obviously keep watching us and listening for more great podcasts. So everybody out there on podcast land. Thank you so much. Jen Nick thank you so much for watching really being with us appreciate it and everybody out there be safe and keep smiling. Thanks so much bye.
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