OM Ep. 124: Life As A Navy Orthodontist With Corinne Devin- Orthodontist, US Navy Commander, Speaker, and International Ms. 2020

Corinne Devin: Hi, this is Dr. Corrine Devin, board certified orthodontist Naval Officer Commander in the United States Navy and International Pageant Queen. And today you're gonna hear about the challenges of orthodontics for our military members and their families as they navigate getting treatment both stateside and overseas

Dean Steinman: Well, hello everybody in Podcast Land. This is Dean Steinman, president of Ortho Marketing, and we are back with another podcast for you. Hope everybody is staying warm, that is in parts of the world, that it's a little cold in the wintertime. And if you are in the warmth, enjoy. We're all jealous of you. Hope everybody is safe and sound.

In these crazy times. And just be guys. Remember again, use your head, be safe, and make sure that you take precautions. So really excited today to have back with me, a very special guest who has been with us before and a really great person as far as getting to know her, look, look at her background.

And besides being an orthodontist, the only orthodontist I've ever met who was also a beauty, And as well as a commander in the United States Navy. I'm Dr. Corrin Devin here. How are you today, Dr.

Corinne Devin: Devin? I am doing well at Ohio Gz Imus. Good morning. From early Japan .

Dean Steinman: Well welcome and I'm so happy to have you back.

We've spoken before and just people who haven't heard before. I'd love for you just to give us a little overview of your, of your story. It's a great journey that you've been through. As I said, I've never had a beauty queen on with us before. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey of, as far as how you became an orthodontist, and then how you became a commander in the Navy and then also as well as a world renowned.

You know, advocate for, for, for women as far as a speaker and as far as you know, being.

Corinne Devin: So go from there . Well, thank you. I appreciate the warm and very honored introduction. So I became a naval officer by drinking the Kool-Aid. You could say my father was a navy dentist. He served for 20 years. So I grew up on mil military bases and was a military brat, which is known for a military child.

And then decided one day I would go to dental school and have the military pay for it. So it's a great scholarship and I'm happy to speak to anyone. Who would like to explore that for the army, the Air Force, the Navy. And then upon entering the Navy, I did a one year AGO and was constantly told, I had the personality and an orthodontist and I wasn't quite sure what that meant cause I never had braces.

But before I know it, I'm on deployment in Iraq, I'm d wiring guys, Josh shut and I'm flying into residency. And upon returning from deployment, I was accepted into the military's orthodontic residency program that is in San Antonio, Texas at Lachlan Air Force Base. And during my journey of becoming a dentist and now an orthodon.

One of my colleagues. I was watching the Miss usA pageant and she was saying I should think about entering because the second runner up that year was a dental student. And before I had a chance to respond, one of my classmates in the class said, ah, cor, you can never do it. And I just turned around and told him to watch me and the rest was history.

So one day I ran into a lifelong hobby that has not only made me a better orthodontist, but a better speaker and a better naval officer. And Just a quick thing for your audience to know. I am in the process of publishing a book. It is at the Pentagon right now, being reviewed when you are a military officer for the Navy, anything you do publication has to go through the proper checks, and so I'm excited for 2022 to release that once I get the final approval.

Dean Steinman: Ah. So let's go get, why don't you give us a little bit of the sneak peek. What's the, what's the book

Corinne Devin: about? The book is about my journey from growing up in the military to drinking the Kool-Aid, and then some of the lessons that I've learned along the way. You know, if you told my eight year old girl self that I would deploy to the same part of the world, my dad would and would take what people would call me for eyes and picked on me because I was small, were the chiefs who would tell me that I would never climb the ranks of military leader.

You're gonna say how I overcame that and the lessons I learned along the way. And that is also, also a snake pre into my keynote speech that I'm gonna be doing for the American Association Orthodontist. I leave on Wednesday, so in a week you'll be hearing me speak at the first live conference in two years.

So I'm incredibly honored and excited to share that sense. The demographics of our orthodontics are changing not only the patients we treat, but how we treat them as well. The orthodontists who are entering the field. So yeah, I'm very, very

Dean Steinman: excited. That's great. It's incredible that you know the journey you've been through and you know, you know, I give, I lift, lift my cap to you of the things that you've accomplished and, and, and on your horizon there is incredible.

So I wanna talk a little bit about today. Military, military family specifically embraces those of you who are listening, that practice in military base areas. So you see a lot of patients come through that are transient, that come and go. Let's talk a little bit about a patient's journey and how an orthodontist has to adapt their practice to somebody that already started with somebody else.

I don't like to have to fix people's websites and marketing cuz it's, you know, cause it was already somebody else's passion and I had to come in and, and, and do that. So let's first start off, what's the first thing that you do when somebody who's already in treatment with somebody? Would come to you because they're, they're new to the, into the community and they need somebody to now, you know, keep an eye on things.

Make sure that the, if they're in Invisalign, making sure that their pro, their pro process is in the right place and they're living the right aligners coming in. If they're in traditional braces, make sure that they're, they're, they're using the right information and they're getting, and they're being compliant there.

So what's the first thing that an orthodontist does? Think about or look at when looking at somebody else's work as a new, as new patient is now in their

Corinne Devin: chair. So you can take it from two different approaches. I'm assuming you're talking about a civilian orthodontist that has a military patient come into their practice, correct?

Dean Steinman: Right. We're gonna talk Exactly. We're gonna talk about it. Not in, not somebody in the military, but somebody in the military area. Somebody in Norfolk, Virginia, somebody in San San Diego, California, whatever, you know, somebody in their west, you know near West Point, New York, or you know, Annapolis or what have you.

That somebody is real, it's not in the military per se, but in the military area. And now the family moves in and they might not live on base. They might live in the, in the area just surrounding it. They don't wanna go on base. So now they're gonna come to your, to your practice already in treatment, adult or kid.

So what's the first thing that you would suggest for them to do? While Orton's already in it.

Corinne Devin: Sure, absolutely. So one of the things that I will just caveat, just to let your audience know, is that military orthodontists stateside have a different mission than military orthodontists overseas. So for starters, there's only 18 orthodontists in the Navy in the entire world.

That's it. There's only 18 of us and in the army, in the Air Force, there's a little bit more about 28 32, and I, their numbers may adjust a little bit because I'm not in their community, but I do work with their community, so, so

Dean Steinman: Army on the, on the 50 orthodontists throughout the whole entire armed forces.

Treating thousands of people in,

Corinne Devin: Well, we treat as many people as we can. We treat as many people as we can. So if a, you know, one of the questions I get from a civilian orthodontist is, Hey, Corin, I have this active duty member who came in my chair, because let's be honest, there's not very many of us. There's a huge need.

And so we can't treat everyone in stateside. We only will treat active duty. We will not treat the dependents, the children or the spouse of a military family. So let's say they come out to town, to you. One of the first things I would find out is how long they're in that area. Very often pe military families are in the area, or members are in the area for two to three years, and as we all know, you know, orthodontics for an adult comprehensive case could take 24 to 28 months.

Now that's a, that's a large generalization depending on someone's severity and complexity and their expectations. Surgery, not surgery. Extractions. Not extractions if they're growing, not growing. So again, I'm just kinda giving a blanket statement. When I say that and what I would tell a civilian orthodontist who's treating a military family is, you know, with the children, they do get a benefit through tricare.

And that TRICARE is about 1750, $1,800 for someone in the network. And that's a one time benefit. So if someone's with you. For only a year and they're gonna leave. You know, it's something that I've always educated my parents and, and patients that I see on a base here in Japan that once you've used that benefit, once you don't get to use it again, it goes away.

And the common thing that I see that happens is that people will start treatment knowing when they're gonna leave the area, which is a big, big no-no in the military. You know, as an orthodontist we wanna start and finish our cases. And as a military orthodontist, very often I start and finish cases, but not usually the same ones.

So in a civilian setting, the first thing I would ask is like, you know, how long are you here? Yes, I understand certain things are time sensitive, especially when it comes to a child's growth. But letting people know that upfront, so that way there's no surprises. Now, something that we do in the military is, let's say you're supposed to be some.

like three years and a year and two year tour. You're seen as a civilian orthodontist and all of a sudden you're in San Diego and you find out that you are coming to Japan. Well, what I always encourage the members to do, the service member is, you know, obviously assigned to sponsor someone who is in Japan who's gonna give them kind of the lay of the land.

But I always, I, I give out my conduct information ev everywhere so people can find me on Instagram, Facebook linked. And then granted, I'm outside of Hiroshima. I'm one of many orthodontists in Japan, in the military, and we have that patient. When they come here, we get a copy of their orders, we get a copy, and I love when orthodontists, the civilian orthodontist can give me their transfer form a copy of the financial showing there's no unpaid balance, and also making sure that I can see what prescription they're in.

Because in the military we don't really do Invisalign. We're just starting to get a clear liner. We use a lot of twin brackets, and so when patients come to me, if they're using, let's say, Damon or a, again, I'm just making this up, there could be, obviously there's thousands of practices and thousands of different types of prescriptions.

Sometimes very often as a military orthodontist, I have to take that off and put on something new. Because if they have something that breaks, I don't have access to that supply. So a civilian orthodontist, if they can give them extra or give them the brackets they weren't able to put on, and the patient is very good and diligent bringing that to me, that helps me out.

But that is something I would ask for them to keep in mind. Because very often service members may not be as front, or I would ask, they may not know those answers. Another big thing I would tell the military, I'm not a sorry civilian orthodontist, excuse me, is, you know, ask the patient, you know, get to know them, obviously ask them what they do.

If, if a patient is going on a ship or they are operational, they're not gonna be able to come see you if they're in Iraq or Afghanistan for. They're not gonna be able to come in for their orthodontic adjustments, nor are they gonna have an orthodontist who's gonna be equipped to take care of emergencies.

There's gonna be a general dentist with very, very limited knowledge and a limited amount of slides. How do I know this? Because I was a general dentist at one point, deployed in Iraq, and if people came in with a broken bonded retainer, all I could do is take it out and that would be it cuz I didn't have a lab to make them clear aligners.

And a very common thing I see happening, and again, I don't blame the orthodontist. Again, we wanna do what's best for our patients. We wanna look out for our patients. If a patient's going on a. where you know they're deployed. Don't, don't put braces on them, you are not helping them. No one dies from crooked teeth.

And that is one of the hard things. I know people don't like that cuz maybe the patient wants it, the orthodon sees a benefit. But you have to think down the road like what could happen if you can't see your patient for six to eight months? Okay. What could happen? A lot of, a lot of things could happen.

Maybe good, maybe not. But I very often see patients who get clear liners, they go on a ship cuz they can't see them. And especially since we're wearing masks, people don't see anything that you're wearing. And then something goes right or they lose it, it breaks, and the labs on the ship. Not every ship has a dentist and a lot of the labs on the ship could maybe make an Essex liner, but it's never gonna be the same quality.

It's not gonna have the prescriptions built in. It's not gonna have anything that you'd see even with clear liner treatment. So I hope that gives us a little bit of background information. It

Dean Steinman: It sure does. Now let's flip it around. It's somebody that is overseas and now coming to, coming back stateside.

All right, so, Go. Go. And they usually come in and let's just walk, walk me through the process. So as far as payment goes, if they're in the military and say they, they start in Japan and they pay you, or we

Corinne Devin: don't get any money, I'll, I'll key this in. I don't get any money. That's why people love military orthodontists.

We're free, we are perks, we are paid by the taxpayer dollars. So everyone wants to

Dean Steinman: see us. So it's covered. So now they come to the states. Another C is, you know, a civilian practice. Well, they're not gonna work for free. No. So, , they have to know, you know, since they got the first step for free, it's not, they don't have to double dip, they don't have to pay for a place.

Corinne Devin: So the situation's a little different if it's a military member who's going back stateside, and they're one of my patients. What I try to do is I have a list of where every orthodontist, army, air Force, Navy, public Health Service is in the United States, and if they're going to an area, Like, for example, San Diego.

I have a couple colleagues who are there, but I, one of the things c consent that I have my patients sign is that the Navy, nor any other federal agency, is responsible for the finances of that. So if my colleague in San Diego is slammed where they cannot take on any of the patients, then they will have to go outside.

Same thing with children or spouses, anyone who's non-military will automatically go to a civilian orthodontist. So what I do and what a lot of my colleagues do is we give a copy of a record to the patient. We tell them to put it in their carry on. We send a digital copy and a hard copy to the patient with a transfer note, and then I put all my contact information.

So I know some of my US orthodontists freak out when they see a plus 8 1 8, 0. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 numbers from Japan. So I actually have a dedicated Skype number. It's a California number, and I have my email address. I put all my contact information and I do that because I always appreciate when orthodontists reach out to me and answer my questions on a case.

I never wanna make any assumptions. I mean, how many times have we had transfer cases? Walk in where half the brackets are broken, the oral hygiene is a mess, the patient doesn't have any information, and you're thinking, who was this orthodontist? What did he or she do? When really we all know we're only getting like one portion of the.

Right. So that's what I do. I provide a lot of that information, and I know a lot of my military colleagues do because nothing makes us happier knowing that that continuation of care is happening and that, yes, we're not there to be at the finish line when someone gets done with treatment, but we we're a good and happy knowing that they're in good hands.

Now, for a civilian orthodontist, listen, you charge the fees that you normally charge if you want to do any sort of discount that is on you. I'm not gonna tell you how to run your practice, but what I tell my patients is one of the most common misnomers. The Feeling is that they are not orthodontists who are, you know, in the military as they're like, okay doc, well I saw you for a year and let's say orthodontist was six, $7,000, so it should only be three.

When I go to the next orthodontist, I'm like, Uhuh, it doesn't work that way. You're not paying for the brackets, you're paying for the expertise. And they may use a different system like me putting a Damon bracket with a twin 3m. Is it gonna work? Maybe, maybe. And it has the same prescription, maybe maybe 22 slots.

But guess what? It's like me putting a Honda Oil filter into a Mercedes. Is it gonna work? Yes. Is it gonna be as efficient? No way. We're gonna probably burn twice as much gas. The car may not work as well, and we might cause more problems down the road. So that's how I sell it to my patients, and I'm very, very.

I communicate a lot. I don't, again, I can't speak for every practice, but I can just tell you that's what my colleagues do. Another thing that we also have available to us that I wanna make sure that your civilian orthodontists know, is we have what are called consultants. So I, for example, in Japan, I am the consultant that I work with another person who's called the TRICARE Dental Officer.

So TRICARE is the main insurance carrier for a lot of our military. and what they do is any patient who goes to a civilian ortho orthodontic office, cuz again, I can't say yes to everyone who comes to me, even in Japan. So this is people going out in the economy, going to Singapore, going to, I've seen cases, Korea and then Japan.

I don't think we have anyone in China right now. We see what they do and then the orthodontist gives us a diagnosis, a treatment plan, a copy of the records. They just consult with us to say, Hey, you know, do you, does this sound good? Because we also wanna make sure that people are not getting the runaround or getting talked into something they don't understand.

That's something we, that's a benefit we extend to our overseas military members going to civilian practice. But stateside there isn't a lot. You know, I, I always encourage people, To see an orthodontist if you don't like what they have to say, get a second opinion. Go to the local society. As military orthodontists, we can't tell you who to go officially.

You know, I can just say, Hey, this was my kid. Here's some people. But I'm speaking in Dr. Devin capacity, not as a representative of the d o d when I say those things. Right.

Dean Steinman: What percentage of. People who start orthodontics in the military are doing this for cosmetic versus health

Corinne Devin: reasons. I would, that's a tr that's tricky.

So the military I would say cosmetic, majority of them want it for cosmetic, but I would say the cases that get accepted are mostly cases where there is a corrective jaw surgery component or a full mouth rehab. C. So overseas my focus is a lot of treating either adults where their discrepancy index, if you're familiar with that in orthodontics, is at least a 20 or higher.

So it is much more difficult. So this is not just someone somewhat or crowding or I'm treating a child where, you know, if we don't get headgear. The possibilities of them needing surgery and extractions is much higher down the road. So it's more of like, we're looking at more of a functional, and yes, there's a cosmetic perk that comes with it.

We do teach cases that vary. I do do quite a few teaching cases in my practice, so there is a bit of a cosmetic component because. I'm working with a general dentist and helping them do a case that's much simpler. And obviously that's usually for something with lower crowding, some spacing, so that would be some cosmetic, but it isn't the main focus of our military orthodontic practices.

Dean Steinman: So people that are doing this for, for health purposes, it's almost like a triage type of thing. You do what you can't mention before that you might be limited in your lab and as far as materials and what have you. So once somebody starts and then they, they leave overseas, they come back stateside.

What happens as far as the next steps? Do people have to start over? Can they finish what you started already? You know, so it depends. Let's talk about cosmetics, let's talk about, you know, just for breathing purposes or overcrowding or what have you.

Corinne Devin: So if they're having a breathing issue, they're probably gonna be seeing other specialists.

And if their health issues are much bigger than just a dental crowding issue they may be potentially med boarded out of the Navy. I mean, I know that sounds really harsh, but I am being very, very honest. The military looks at orthodon. As an area they can cut and not, like I said, 18 out of a population of 350,000 for the Marines and the Navy.

So that should, I mean that right there should speak volumes of how, you know, we're, we're looked at, we back in the States, if they are a surgery component, if, like if someone needs corrective jaw surgery, but they're going to a ship, the braces come off, the braces will stop. If they're having breathing issues, they'll see a specialist.

But then if they can't be, if you cannot be deployable in the military as a service member, This is different if you were a child or a spouse. That depends on the military they're gonna be looking at alternative means of either finding a place that you can still be functional, military, or me, or having you get out of the military.

I know this sounds really harsh, but we, we, as service members, we have to be ready to deploy at any moment. I mean, I may be an orthodontist, but I've moved seven times in the middle of a pandemic. I've deployed to. And on my, on my fourth overseas deployment tour. So again, that is just the reality for our service members.

So again, I, I challenge your, your civilian orthodontist if they have questions. Many of my colleagues in these Facebook groups ask these questions. I mean, I love when a civilian orthodontist. Saved a patient money, or at least was like, Hey Karen, I wanna extract teeth on this patient. She has so much credit, and I know it'll help her with her breathing, but she's leaving to go to a ship in six months.

And I said, Hey, this is what's gonna happen. She's gonna leave to go to a ship and they're gonna make her take off her braces and leave, because that's what's gonna happen. So, you know, like, explain, you know, think about that. And, and, and it's, it's hard. There's a lot of ethical things that do come up, a lot of ethical issues that'll come up for us for that reason.

So if

Dean Steinman: If somebody is leaving Japan and they're moving to San Diego, would they come to you and say, you know, like, d who would you recommend I go see when I'm, when I go back to, to the states? Or would just like Google it or, you know, what's the, you know, what, what's, what's typical, you know, you know, procedure, s, sop as far as.

You know what's going to take the next steps.

Corinne Devin: So if they're active duty, then I will reach out to the civilians, I will reach out to the military orthodontists in the area to see if they can take them if they can. Great. And again, I forward them a copy of the records digitally and also give a hard copy to the patient if they can't take them or if it's a child or a spouse who is not in the military they will go to a civilian office and.

Legally, I can't tell them where to go. I just say, you know, I would look up I would go, you know, go to San Diego Orthodontic Society. I would go to braces.org and find an orthodontist area and whoever you find, you know, yes, I sent you a copy via email. But if they need more information, here's my card. I pay for my own business cards, military, and I give it to my patient and tell 'em, put it in their wallet and have them reach out.

And then I also tell them, be prepared to pay some fees. You. Do not group on like when it comes to your face, like ask around. And, and that's what I usually recommend. I, I don't recommend a general dentist only because usually the cases that I'm treating and the complexity of the care requires the expertise of an orthodontist.

I really do appreciate my general dentist who does some of the orthodontics, but in the military, we don't get it easy. We get crazy hard. Scratch your head, how am I gonna fit this together?

Dean Steinman: So, oh, that's interesting. So if you had to give one bit of advice, To a orthodontist in a military community that is a civilian what's the one thing that you suggest for them to do today potentially.

Get more patients, you know, that are coming from, that are, that are now being, coming back into the states. What's one thing we suggest they do? You know, to welcome the military community to a civilian office, to let them know that the military is welcome. You know, should they be on social media?

Should they? Be, you know, reaching out to a certain office, like what's the best way for them? Because at the end of the day, you, you know, as a business owner, you want to increase your business. So this, this is kind of like, I guess like a sales or marketing tip. What's one thing that you suggest somebody do in Norfolk or San Diego or what have you, to let you know, people coming back know that we're, we'd love to have you come to our.

Corinne Devin: You know, first off, I'm a big about relationships. I, I would, I would tell them to reach out to the military orthodontists that are there, simply just to let 'em know that they are there, that they take military patience, you know, legally, I can't just say go to this person, but it's always nice to know who's in the area.

I would say that would be number one. Number two is I would get them, I would have them become part of tricare. I would have them be a network on Tricare. And again, that is a business decision that I would make, but I would reach out to TRICARE and find out how they can get part of their network. That would be huge because as you know, insurance, the fees and insurance pay were very different.

You were in a network versus an item. And then I would also volunteer your time at military events. So what I mean by that is, for example, in San Diego, they do a couple events where they are looking for a dentist to always volunteer. So Veterans Village operations stand out. Yes, you are not doing orthodontics and may not be a place for you to kind of advertise, saying, oh, like, you know, putting up signs and passing up flyers.

But it's a great way to start to grow and build those relationships. Yeah, you know, I have a soft spot for the military. I have a practice here at Orthodontics. You know, I'm looking to find ways for me to really help because I, you know, when it comes to transfer cases, nothing gives me more joy than taking care of the patients who unselfishly sacrifice themselves for the freedoms I enjoy.

Samine, those would be just a few things. You don't go, I will tell you, San Diego is very saturated with a ton of orthodontists. I know that from doing Moodle myself. And so again, I had assigned a lot of documents saying that if any patients I didn't accept, I couldn't just send them directly to the practice I would work in.

That would be a big no-no, get myself kicked out, but at the same time, My colleagues who are not in the military who are orthodontists, they volunteer at these events and when you do these events, they get a lot of publicity and people see you there. You get name associates and not every person at the event is military.

And again, it's a great way to get plugged into this community cuz then people feel that instant bond. They feel that instant trust and that's, I think, word of the mouth as long as it gets posted on social media. That's a great way for you to market yourself in your.

Dean Steinman: I, I agree. Great tip there. Great.

So you know, if anybody is in a military general base area, that's some great things to do. I just did a podcast just last week on how to do community involvement and how to take your practice to the next level, part of the community and just grassroots stuff. This is a great, great tip, you know, from, from, and from an expert.

So I really appreciate it. And you know, one last question for you Corin, if. you had to give one bit advice to, cause I know you, you're, you're, you're a very female empowerment and, and you have a, you know, a great niche there. So a female orthodontist is just starting out or wants to take a practice to the next level, woman to woman.

What one bit of advice would you give them to do today? Just from an overall business standpoint? An overall tics standpoint? Overall woman's standpoint. Once, one bit of advice that you, that if some, you, you would,

Corinne Devin: You don't have to give up who you are to be who you wanna be. That would be the one thing I would tell them, because I feel, as women very often, we feel like we have to give up parts of ourselves for something else.

And yes, we have seasons where certain areas will take over, but being a naval officer, a pageant queen and an orthodontist could not be more opposite at first glance. But there's skills I've learned that have benefited each other. So again, that is what I would tell you, your female orthodontist. Yeah, you don't have to give up who you are to be who you wanna be.

And bringing that to your practice will make you unique and will make you relatable, thought-provoking, and engaged with anyone who walks into your practice.

Dean Steinman: Great bit of advice. Thank you so much. So, of course, Corin, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Wanted to thank you for your service.

I, you know, God

Corinne Devin: bless you in Miami to, to, and listen, you can sell me down, but we have to be outside cuz I'm not gonna wear my cover indoors.

Dean Steinman: There you go. No, no worries. You know, my, my pleasure. You know, to buy a beer, drink, you know, soda or water, co coffee, whatever it is. My pleasure. Thank you. You know, so well thank you so much for joining us today.

Guys, any questions? What's somebody, if somebody wants to reach out to you or has a question or just wants to, you know, get to know you, what's the best way for somebody to, to reach out?

Corinne Devin: Sure. Social media is a great way. So on Instagram, I'm Dr. Krin Devin, that's d r c o r i n n e d e v i n. You can also find me on Facebook, LinkedIn, and THO and YouTube.

So those are probably the easiest and fastest way to find me. And then also my email address is dr krin devin gmail.com. And again, I am more than happy to answer any questions you have whether you're in the military, you're not in the military. Or from an orthodontist perspective where you're kind of dealing with a dilemma.

Like I said, some of my colleagues who've reached out to me, they, you know, we know each other from high school or from college, and they're like, oh, hey, you're an orthodontist. Like, what should I do here? And again, I. At the end of the day, we all want the same thing. We wanna create beautiful smiles where we're changing lives, we're changing the world.

And sometimes that's hard in the military because we have no control over our lives and there's ways to navigate this. And that's what I do. I'm like a quarterback on a football team, but in the dental world, and I'm more than happy to share what I've learned with anyone who needs it.

Dean Steinman: There you, there you go.

And I, you know, say my favorite football player of all time is Navy quarterback Roger Staubach. So really, you know. Yep, yep. That's the way.

Corinne Devin: Well, he's got a good record of the Navy, of beating Army, but my Army colleagues for saying that Captain,

Dean Steinman: captain America, you know, so he is, he's the guy who got me into sports and, and football now a Jets fan.

So I'm fortunate for me. But Karen, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Again, you know, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks so much for your service. Thanks for this, this insight. Guys, follow her on social media. She's got some, some great Instagram stuff. She's really knowledgeable.

She's great to listen to and really helpful. So come in. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And you know, we'll see you soon.

Corinne Devin: Thank you everybody. Sounds great. Thank you.

Ortho

Dean Steinman: marketing.com. 360 degree Digital Marketing Solutions for your

Corinne Devin: practice.